• Welcome to the System Change Not Climate Change Community Forum. The Forum's goal is to promote exchange of information, discussion, and debate among ecosocialists and other activists who share our belief that capitalism is driving climate change and that a radical international grassroots movement can stop it.

[a few comments to the article "Facing the music"...]

  • subhuti 2a day ago
    One thing that helps 'revolutions', whether real or fake is elucidated by our own dear Victoria Nuland, "...we spent $5 billion building democracy" in Ukraine. The fascists control 95% of the media and 95% of the money.
    How many people even know about The Greanville Post and the info it provides?
    I was talking with a German guy in his '50s, an intelligent man and a teacher. I told him about his country being occupied by the Americans long after WWII and he didn't believe me until I sent him links showing the number of US bases and troops in Germany. At that, he became indignant. "Someone should tell people about this!" But don't expect Der Spiegel or Deutsche Welle or other German MSM to do so.
  • [I can relate to that... true what he says. I am German and carry only one passport. I wonder what happened to me that I have understood decades ago that Germany is still an occupied land. When I tried to figure out when that insight had hit my brain it coincided with my coming to the US in 1988 which was a completely new ballgame than what I was used to. 30-hour workdays every other day (from 8am till 2pm the next day with calls to emergency deliveries in the middle of the night just when I thought I could have a 30min nap, at the largest neonatal intensive care unit between Boston and New York). For 30 grand a month. I was already 42; I was so tired at the morning Grand Rounds that I had to make an effort not to collapse, not to mention that I was nearly unable to speak English... forcing me to go home sleep for three hours, go back to the hospital, write my progress notes, go back home and sleep another couple of hours before returning to the NICU for my night shift which lasted until 5pm the next day.) Why all that? I quickly picked up what 'Capitalist system a la USA" means. Brutal exploitation; as you may know it were the residents who ran US university hospitals at that time 30 years ago, not hospitalists) I roomed in with a Chinese and an Indian, a great opportunity to learn about other cultures experience and thought processes. In short, in three short years I had learned what the US is all about... including her sorry history of interventions in dozens of other countries (see table). Can you imagine what my newly acquired knowledge did to me? I started hating the US political system and I still have a hard time today not to conflate that evil system with the collective of Americans that sits on its hand tolerating such an aberration. If I were a better writer I could write abook about my American experience, a stomach-churning mix of the best and the worst. During these years of cultural apprenticeship I also began to understand that Germany is still occupied land under the tutelage of the US.]
    • P. Greanville Mod subhuti 2a day ago
      The American left, leaving aside liberals—the faux left, in reality centrists umbilically attached to capitalism and more often than not obstacles to revolution—has been pathetic in terms of strategy, at least for the last 40 years. I recall sitting in debates in the 70s recommending the creation of a mass media apparatus, totally independent of the capitalist media, and capable of reaching at least 10 to 15% of the US population on any given day, with our message [for years I have wondered myself G], and being igored and voted down every single time, with the highest votes going to "renters strikes in Chicago" and other Saul Alinsky type of "grassroots mobilisations."
      I argued then and I argue now that you can't fight the system, go around picking battles with it, when you have not created the weapons or armies to fight such battles with. In our immediate case this has been precisely the creation of genuine left mass media. The tactical vacuum continues, even though the Internet has finally given rise to a blooming of left platforms. That said, the Internet is not even remotely a leftist/progressive lake. Much of it is dominated by corporate BS, corporate media BS, wacko sites, and many rightwing sites, plus other subjects (science, cultural, etc.), and, of course, porno, which still accounts for about 35% of all sites (incredible). All told that leaves us with no more than 5% to 8% at best. That's the reality, even today, and we are under attack. Time for a Samisdat in this country. And more imaginative forms of mass organisation.
  • [How can I explain that powerlessness? Just one aspect: Counting the huge numbers of environmental and animal protection sites may point to the fact that American individualism is still heavily imprinted on the American psyche, rendering them unaware of the fact that sometimes mass, weight or numbers are more important than diversity without focus.]
      • subhuti 2 P. Greanvillea day ago
        A major problem is money. Most left wing sites like GP struggle financially, since they don't have any 'Left Wing Koch Brothers' paying their bills and corporate sponsors absent. It'd be interesting to see how the Wobblies and other radical groups financed themselves.
        David William Pear2 days ago
        This reminds me to re-read Gene Sharp: From Dictatorship to Democracy.
        As I remember his methods involve making revolutions fun, give people a sense of belonging, unity, an imagined goal, a sense of winning, and give people a sense of (political) power. Sharp's methods work and have been adopted by the CIA and fascists to overthrow democratic governments as well as dictators.
        We need to send some moles into the working groups of the color revolutions and learn how they do it. It has always made me realize how weak the "liberal/progressive/socialist" movement is when a rock concert and sporting events can draw tens of thousands of people,
        but here in Florida we cannot get more than a few dozen people to come out for an anti-war or civil rights protest.
      • [same in Georgia, where I have lived for the longest G]
      • DHFabian David William Peara day ago
    • What do people care about the most, at the proverbial end of the day? Whether they have the means to keep their families together, housed and fed. Many don't have that. And because years of work went into pitting the "masses" against each other, middle class vs. poor, etc., it's hard to stand up together on any issue. By the time Occupy itself was redefined as a "movement of middle class workers," we knew there was no chance of seeing a movement to push for legitimately progressive change.

    • P. Greanville Mod David William Pear2 days ago
      Our colleague and comrade in struggles David is certainly spot on: the left has a lot to learn about tactics and strategies, especially to basically motivate people enough to even listen to the genuinely progressive message.
      Gene Sharp's Machiavellian methods were quickly adopted and implemented by the CIA and other parties interested in fielding phony revolutions as a form of regime change and grand cooptation of the masses' desire for change, and something of their catechism can probably be borrowed by the left, but there remains huge obstacles.
      One reason the "color revolutions" succeeded is because, using nothing but lies, they played on themes the left has long (and correctly) opposed or discarded, chauvinism, for example, as well as ignorance of what Western capitalism really is like. Let us recall that many Soviet dissidents and others who applauded the dismantlement of the USSR, including many in that nation's intelligentsia, had bought into the West's propaganda BS as a land of genuine democracy and abundance for all. Most of them lived to regret it.
      Another huge factor for their success in enlisting and mobilising enormous multitudes to do Washington's bidding is due to the gianormous machinery of counter-revolution and co-optation already place, built over many decades, from "sleeper cells" a la Gladio to new recruits, money being no object, none of which the left has at its disposal. All of this in addition to the regular "Fifth columnists" contributed by the targeted nation's class allies. This is today totally clear in Venezuela, for example, and even Iran, Russia and China have their equivalents, albeit in far more controllable dimensions.
      Lastly, these "color revolutions" rested on the biggest global propaganda / cultural apparatus ever seen, that controlled by the West, which only recently has begun to be counter-balanced by budding media networks from Russia and China and even Iran, along with counter-establishment sites such as this. All of these growing anti-Neoliberal networks are under attack, of course, and Internet freedoms may not last much longer.
      We face a tough challenge, but we have reality on our side. Let us hope that the imperialists greedy over-reach blow their cover sufficiently for reality to terminate their brainwash once and for all.


    • s
    • see more
      DHFabian P. Greanvillea day ago
      For the past quarter-century, those considered on the US left have called on us to stand up to protect the advantages of the better-off, the middle class (revised to "working class" in 2016) within our capitalist system. Every day that they've ignored the consequences of our capitalist system -- our poverty crisis -- they have given their approval to that system.
*****************

While our media prostitutes, many Hollywood celebs, and politicians and opinion shapers make so much noise about the still to be demonstrated damage done by the Russkies to our nonexistent democracy, this is what the sanctimonious US government has done overseas just since the close of World War 2. And this is what we know about. Many other misdeeds are yet to be revealed or documented.


Facing the Music: Religion, Nationalism and Sports Have Enchanted the Working Class; Socialism Hasn’t
 
Top